Senior Care Academy - A Helperly Podcast
Senior Care Academy is the podcast for caregivers, senior care providers, and families with aging loved ones. Hosted by experienced professionals, we explore essential topics like elder care planning, dementia support, financial advice, and emotional wellness for caregivers.
Each episode offers expert insights, practical tips, and resources to help you navigate senior care with confidence. Whether you're a healthcare provider, a family member supporting aging parents, or a senior adult seeking guidance, this podcast delivers actionable advice tailored to your needs.
Subscribe now for in-depth discussions, expert interviews, and real-world solutions to improve the quality of care for the seniors in your life.
Senior Care Academy - A Helperly Podcast
Teepa Snow's Positive Approach and Innovations: Compassionate Care
Join us for an enlightening conversation with Teepa Snow!
A pioneering force in dementia care and the creator of the Positive Approach.
With her deep roots in occupational therapy, Teepa has reshaped how we perceive and engage with individuals living with dementia, focusing on empathy and personalized interaction.
This episode offers invaluable insights for caregivers and professionals, underscoring the critical importance of relationship-building and adapting techniques to meet individuals where they are.
We discuss the challenges of addressing agitation and distress in senior living spaces, advocating for curiosity over judgment.
The conversation highlights the need for proactive communication and engagement to manage expectations and prevent crises, while also recognizing the burdens faced by caregivers.
Exploring the intersection of technology, creativity, and dementia care, we emphasize that technology should complement rather than replace human interaction. Teepa shares her thoughts on the importance of adaptability and understanding individual needs when integrating technological tools, such as music and TV, into care practices. We also delve into preparing for a career in dementia care, stressing the importance of flexibility, creativity, and systemic changes in caregiver training.
Welcome to Senior Care Academy. We are honored to welcome Tipa Snow today, a true luminary in dementia care and the visionary founder of Positive Approach. With over 40 years of experience in occupational therapy and dementia care, tipa has revolutionized how we understand and approach cognitive challenges. Her positive approach to care methodology is a cornerstone in the field, providing care with practical, empathetic strategies to improve the lives of those with dementia. Tipa's work has been recognized globally and her educational resources have reached millions through her books, videos and viral social media content. From her widely acclaimed training programs to her groundbreaking GEM model, tipa's contributions have profoundly shaped dementia care, offering hope, dignity and a better care for countless individuals and families.
Speaker 2:TIPA welcome and it's an honor to have you on. Oh, caleb, I'm so glad to be back with you. I mean we met up, I guess, in Utah, but it's good to be back with you virtually, even if not in person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm really excited for this episode. I think a lot of our listeners they work directly or all of our listeners work directly with seniors and dementia care. I think, even though much more studied in recent years, there's still so much unknown and there's still a lot of just misconceptions about how to help those with dementia Not only how to help but how to help them thrive even with it. So my first question is what inspired you originally to focus on dementia care as your life work, coming from occupational therapy?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was working in long-term care and there were so many therapists. This was back in the day when we could pick people up, treat people, care for people and then have them be in the day when we could pick people up, treat people, care for people and then have them be in the facility and we could do a follow-up program and then turn them back over to staff. And what I found is the people who were in the therapy department whether it was PT, ot speech they dreaded picking people up living with dementia. Number one because they weren't sure they'd be covered under the guidelines of Medicare. But the other reason is they said, well, they're just going to plateau and they don't remember anyway, why would you do that? And it's like, whoa, well, they don't actually plateau so much as you guys get boring and they're not interested in doing it or you keep asking them to do things they don't understand.
Speaker 2:But I did get ugly with it, but it was just like, let me see what I can do. And so they go. How do you get them to do that stuff? And it's like, well, I'm paying attention to them. And yeah, I have my agenda, but my agenda is got to come in after we build a relationship, I look at their agenda and I figure out how to make it work when we work together, and it was just so surprising to people that I can get people to do things. I can get people to dress themselves, get people to actually walk without a walker, and they go. How did you do that? And it's like well, I start where they are and we make it interesting, we make it purposeful, we make it fun, and so I was finding success and others were finding it really challenging, so I started working more and more and then I started going, but I can't be the only one, and so it was all right. Well, how do I get more people excited about this?
Speaker 2:And it was training them in techniques that they could see right away when you use it. It's like, oh well, that's different. And it's like, yep, so that's why we do it this way. And they're like, oh, okay, okay. And then there's this period of time of learning, and then they start recognizing oh, it does make a difference. And some people come back and go. It worked. It's like good to hear Tell me more about that yeah, Surprise, surprise.
Speaker 1:When you start your training, what would you say is the first key thing that you train on? So that way they have that aha moment, you know the next client to go to.
Speaker 2:Oh great, it's a great question because catching somebody's interest, and so what I'll say is take your hand, put it at the back of your head. And what did I do? I did it right, and so when I did it, your brain goes. Well, I should copy Absolutely. So what's a technique that makes a difference, Instead of just saying put your hand on the back of your head? That doesn't have the impact. When I say, oh hey, Caleb, take your hand, put it on the back of your head, and I do it. It works and so that's a step.
Speaker 2:Now, if I said, oh, the back of your head is where you process everything you see, and I say so, where in your brain do you process visual data, then Right here, and then I'm like that's where it comes in.
Speaker 2:Where does it get processed? All the way back here, yeah, so it has to travel, and it means what comes in doesn't necessarily always get translated back there, and it's because you have brain problems, and so you go from being able to see all this to only being able to see this. So now, caleb, put your hands around your eyes like this and look down at your shirt and tell me whether you have something up near your collar.
Speaker 1:I can't see near my collar.
Speaker 2:Oh, but if you look like without, you can sort of figure it out.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so if you had something on your shirt and I reached out and touched you there where your collar is, would that surprise you? Maybe then? With, like my hands, like this it would oh yeah, and so instead of I went hey caleb, if you put your eyes up and I go, hey caleb, you got something like right here. What would would you do? What did you do automatically?
Speaker 2:You automatically reach down and try to find it Cha-ching, so you get the recipe. That's the recipe for the sauce is like engaging a learner, just like I engage somebody living with dementia.
Speaker 1:That's awesome and that's something that the next person I talk to I can just like. It's not going to be perfect, but I can just start saying, okay, well, now, where can I demonstrate my thought process? And then I see the. I see it working. That's so cool, how easily that's implemented.
Speaker 2:Isn't it fun? And so we start doing it mutually. I mean, we're both benefiting, and that's what I believe is the difference in dementia care that works is when we both benefit from what happens.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that. And so with dementia care, you and I are talking for briefly, but what's one of the most significant misconceptions about it that you've encountered? I think there's a lot of negative misconceptions, but also you mentioned one about the people that are struggling with dementia care and kind of how it's broader.
Speaker 2:I mean one of the things is that in a building or in a community that dementia is going to be in dementia, in memory, in the memory care unit, it's like uh-oh, uh-oh. Whether it's a general community, a residential community, a area of town, it will be hiding for anywhere from five to eight years before the symptoms become so pronounced that we start recognizing it for what it is.
Speaker 2:But people are going to try to stay where they are for much longer and so what we have to recognize is wow, people living with brain change don't like change. Yeah, getting people to transition to different settings, to different care routines, getting them used to things we need to think this through before we introduce it or what we end up with is a lot of resistance and we call that that the person's resistive and I'm going to say no. Dementia makes it really hard to get excited about surprises and differences, and we also are not liking the surprises and differences that happen with dementia. So we've got to give everybody some grace. We've got to give everybody some space and time and we also need to get better at what we do so we can actually deliver.
Speaker 2:People don't get agitated out of nowhere. When we say somebody's agitated, it's like wow, that's a symptom of distress. I would say someone's in distress. Is it a physical distress, do we think? Is it an emotional distress? Is it a social distress? Is it a spiritual distress? Once I start to recognize where's it coming from. Is it overdoing the sound, overdoing movement, overdoing activity, or too little or it's unfamiliar. I mean we've got to get curious rather than sit in judgment of people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the distress. How long ago did it start Is it like? Has it been brewing? I think a lot of the times people think it's just all of a sudden out of nowhere. We had the conversation and my mom got upset or, like this person, this client got upset.
Speaker 2:It's like, well, it's been ruminating for months or, like you said, it could be years. First thing this morning I said you know, do I have an appointment today? And you said I don't know, I'll have to check the calendar or I'll have to check the schedule. And I say okay, and I'm standing there and you're like, well, I can't check it right now, I'll check it and get back with you. And it's like I wish you could do this because I really need to know. And you go, Tifa, you know I will as soon as I can. Well, then the next person says, well, it's not time for lunch. And then the next person says we don't have tomato juice, we only have orange juice. And so, by two in the afternoon, so many things, nobody in this stupid place does anything you ask for.
Speaker 2:This is ridiculous.
Speaker 1:I pay so much money to stay here and nobody does anything for you and everybody's like what is she all raving about?
Speaker 2:yeah, why is she? So mad and it's because I don't know any one of you could have helped me out, and everybody's giving me excuses yeah, that's so.
Speaker 1:it's interesting because that's not like an extreme example either, like that could happen any given Wednesday morning, like by two, two o'clock, like they could be at that point where.
Speaker 2:Right, and we like to call it sundowning and it's like no, it's accumulation, it's sort of like one thing after another, and it's just like I'm not finding comfort or I'm not getting what I'm looking for. And I was expecting that here. I mean, that's why I came here is to get what I was looking for. And I'm not getting it, and so I'm not happy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it is also hard with that, with like let me check my calendar and get back to you and if it takes an hour then they're just sitting there like I'm missing something, maybe for an hour, and that unnecessary stress With kind of setting so within senior living space, as people are, or really any senior care, how would you say? Or what's the most important part of kind of setting that bar with them so that way they come in understanding that you know it might take a little bit for me to go and go down to the office, grab the calendar or like we are understaffed, or yeah.
Speaker 2:So this is where, if you have the skill I mean and again you have to build skill If you have the skill to say hey, teba, you're wanting to know about your appointment this afternoon. You think maybe there's one this afternoon. I'm going to check on that. I'm going to ask you for a big favor, though I could use some help here for just a few minutes. Could you do me a big favor? These napkins that we have to get back out, they need to get folded. Would you fold them into quarters for me? That would be super helpful. I really appreciate it. You are such an amazing human being. I so appreciate you. So what am I doing to the time that you're going to spend that somebody? I'm going to be spending waiting. What happened to that?
Speaker 1:It just goes away because I'm busy doing.
Speaker 2:So now you have something to do in that time and what you have to do gives you a sense of value and purpose, and I am so appreciative. And now, when I come back in an hour and I say, hey, teva, you do have an appointment. It's at two o'clock this afternoon and I don't know whether anybody said anything or not about transport, but they want you to leave at 1.30. You know what I'm going to do. Make sure that I get up with you before that 1.30 so you can get back down here. Listen, now I know they're having lunch. I wanted to let you know they are out of tomato juice and I know that's your usual, but I wanted to give you a heads up so you could sort of think ahead. What would you rather have instead?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Now what happened to the next thing? Because I know that you get riled, because this happens pretty frequently you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Now you've helped get ahead of that. So they're not surprised when they show up to lunch and are not having what they want and and then needing to leave lunch fast because they have to get to their appointment or whatever Like it's just sets the expectations in the bar for the day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's little things that matter, and so it's not like I changed. I mean, I didn't change anything. We still had the same issues we had, but I chose to address them differently, and that means I had some skill to do that. And one of our greatest challenges we don't build the skills of those who are present, and so we have to clean up a lot. And so I think for leaders, monday is like their least favorite day of the week, because you've got to come out back and put out all the fires, you've got to deal with all these crises and reports from over the weekend, and the people who work weekend are frustrated because they got left there with nobody else there to help them. Families are on the phone waiting to talk, and so there goes Monday you know, which is not how you want to spend Monday.
Speaker 1:How do you so with the frontline staff that are the ones that are having these conversations? Is it something like something in the water and you just find these great people, or is there like emotional training and things to find that level of patience, especially because that conversation could be happening almost every day of like every day?
Speaker 2:I mean we should look at this as basic core training, because this is the basis and core of people who are having trouble keeping up with things and having trouble keeping up with where and having trouble keeping up with when and who and how. And yet at times I'm really clear, but at other times I'm not. So what I would say is we can't assume anything. What we want to do is sort of really acknowledge. So if I were to do this with you, caleb, what would happen? So I'd say so I'm going to come up to you and I'm going to say I need to go home and what I want to do is find out what you're going to do, because in that moment that tells me what your baseline skill is. And I do that with multiple carers. And then I have an idea of wow, we're going to need some training here, because we have at least three people who get turned around in where they are, when they are, why they're here, and they ask that question a lot, and they don't all live on memory care.
Speaker 2:Because it only happens in the late afternoon, early evening, for people who are out in AL or maybe IL or living in an apartment with their spouse but they come to find somebody else because the spouse went to play golf. I mean all kinds of things. But once I know where my staff are, then I say okay. So at change of shift we're going to do a very quick introduction of the possibility. So I introduced the skill. So I want to go home. Can you help me get out of here? And the tendency is to answer the question, yeah no, I can't.
Speaker 1:I want to go home. Can you help me?
Speaker 2:get out of here, and the tendency is to answer the question yeah, no, I can't, or yes, I can, and what we're going to do instead is say so, you're wanting to get out of here, so what did I do to my body?
Speaker 1:You turned.
Speaker 2:I shifted it and I said you want to get out of here, but I'm lining up with here and I don't want to be here. Oh, you're looking to be somewhere else Now. Do you have something that you is there a place you'd like to go when you aren't here? Like where would that be?
Speaker 1:I want to go home.
Speaker 2:Ah home, yeah To your house.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, now ooh. Living room or somewhere else?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, now ooh living room or somewhere else, bedroom, oh your bedroom. Ooh, yeah Is it dark or is it light in there?
Speaker 2:It's pretty light in there. It's pretty light. Is it private? Are you there and nobody messes with you?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:I hear you, this place is pretty busy, isn't it? Yeah?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Too busy. You know, I could use a favor for just a second before you head out okay now, why so? What's happened? What happened to need to go home here? Totally yeah, you de-escalated it and then yeah, and when I find out what you really need yeah, I need a quiet place that feels like I can because guess what this is? Change, a shift, guess what's happening lots of movement.
Speaker 1:Everybody's out, yeah, and some people are going home, yeah. And a lot of people are walking out the front door. I need to go too, and what time do you get up?
Speaker 2:You get up at 5 am. Ah yeah, you're an early riser, so now's a good time for you to cruise to a quiet space. I wonder if you like music, what kind?
Speaker 1:So I want staff to get super curious, but we have to start off with what's the skill set they have and what do we build and how do we build and how do we keep it little and how do we check in. That was awesome. It really is. I think the core attributes or things that you train for is like curiosity and then just patience, because you're going to be saying the same thing over and over again, but always be curious as if it's the first time they're saying it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because it may be a different reason they're saying it this time. I mean, I won't know. I've got to stay engaged because if I don't, they're looking for engagement. I'm not giving it Guess what? Elopement, frustration, anger, a sense of not being respected, a sense of being trapped None of those are healthy feelings for somebody living in a community, and it's going to increase the risk that my job's going to get harder. So I don't want my job hard. It's hard enough. And I also believe that our leadership need to be able to do this too. I don't think they should ask staff to do something they don't have the basic core skills of doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're managing the community. So if they run into somebody they're like and they call somebody and then all of a sudden it does, yeah, so I can call and I can say I'm really stuck, I don't know what to do, and you can say well, I'll give it a shot.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm not 100% on this, but I did take some training and I am willing to try, because if I have a leader who's willing to try, well then I'll work harder for that person in that situation.
Speaker 1:I like that a lot. What switching kind of with that approach, like how you just immediately I mean it was a little role play, but we got to the bottom of what I really needed in like five questions. What are some common triggers of distress for people that have any kind of stage of dementia? And then how do we manage those? Because I think, knowing the triggers, we could potentially minimize them or try to avoid them altogether, if we can.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I'm going to give four S's that are often the triggers or four F's, and then so that makes a total of eight. So I'm overwhelmed, sensory wise. So we've got to look at my sensory needs. Is it too much or too little? And it could be what I see, what I hear, what I feel, what I do, but it's what's happening, sensory wise. Am I liking, not liking? Then it gets to social. Am I getting a good social that I enjoy, or is this social, not a social interaction? Am I missing a social that I really want and crave?
Speaker 2:Then we get to the third, which is, in this case, space. Is this a space I'm enjoying or is this a space that I'm not liking? I want to be in another space, I want to be in an outdoor space, I want to be in a private space, I want to be at the theater, I want to go to work. I mean, we got to figure out what space I'm craving or missing. And then, finally, what are the surfaces that might be bothering me? Surface to surface contact matters. Could it be the chair I'm sitting in? Could it be the carpet on the floor? Could it be my glasses on my face, my dentures in my mouth. Could it be the clothes? I'm too hot, I'm too cold. It's too tight. I don't like this. It doesn't feel good. This brief is uncomfortable and I don't understand. So that's my S's.
Speaker 1:Wow. The fourth one was a surprise for me. I know that's often a surprise.
Speaker 2:And yet think about it. We don't like the feeling of stuff on us that doesn't feel right.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Or if I'm cold, I want another layer and I may say I got to get out of here and it's like it's cold.
Speaker 2:It's cold, so we can raise the temperature of the room or we can give her something to put over her, but she's missing that. Yeah, the air movement on her, um, and then the four f's friendly. It doesn't feel friendly here for me. Familiar, I think I'm in an unfamiliar place, even though you know so it's not feeling familiar, functional. I can't figure out what to do here. I want to be in a place where I know what to do, or forgiving. I feel like people are judging and not liking me and I don't like that. I want out of here because I don't like this feeling I'm having right now, yeah, how on the four Fs, I feel like that's harder.
Speaker 1:Maybe it's harder to get to the bottom of, because sensor like that one would have been a. I'm trying to think which S mine like I want to get to the bottom of it, because sensor like that one would have been a. I'm trying to think which S mine like.
Speaker 2:I want to get home because I was sensory, because there was too much space, yeah.
Speaker 2:You want to be in a familiar space. So let's look at it. So what happens is you say this isn't my stuff, I don't know who brought this in here. Then it may be time to talk to family and say you know what? We're going to make it look more like a hotel room, because when it looks like their place, it feels like they've been dumped here. So we're actually going to ask I'm going to ask you to bring in stuff that is not as familiar to them. So this is temporary. You're staying here temporarily, for right now, this is is this, is this quilt okay? I mean, I know it's not your quilt, but is it okay? And it's like yeah, cause I? I mean, I know it's not your quilt, but is it okay. And it's like yeah, because I don't want to stay here long. And it's like okay, well, that's fine. You know, is this one comfortable for you? Yeah, but I actually need it to be less familiar.
Speaker 1:Because if it's familiar, it's like why is?
Speaker 2:all my stuff here.
Speaker 1:I don't like this. I'm going to pack it up. This isn't my house.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wow, that's so interesting I know that that is definitely a shift in my mind because feels like you're, you're making her stay and she's going no, and so well, let's try something different.
Speaker 1:I mean, let's give it a shot.
Speaker 2:See what happens yeah, that's yeah.
Speaker 1:um so, with trying to put together a question, so yeah, I guess I would. I'm interested in doing a quick role play on one of the four Fs, like how do you get to the bottom of that?
Speaker 2:as quickly, yeah, and so it's like, let's say, you have crap all over your shirt and I'm trying to help you get out of the dirty shirt and into a clean shirt. I mean, it's one thing that I'm you know, frequently people are trying to figure out yeah and let's say, without thinking about, I said caleb, you have stuff on your shirt here.
Speaker 2:Let's change your shirt. This one is, you know, this one's dirty. Let me get you a clean shirt here. See, I have clean shirt for you, clean shirt for you. It's like this is fine, leave it alone. I'm not changing the shirt, this is my shirt and I'm not doing it. And it's like okay. So I judged you and I didn't mean to, but I was making you feel really uncomfortable because you didn't feel like it was okay to have that shirt on. So, okay, let me shake it off and I go.
Speaker 1:Oh hey.
Speaker 2:Jacob, I have a big favor to ask of you. I got a new shirt for my husband and I'm really wondering you guys are about the same size. Would you be willing to try it on so I can see what it looks like?
Speaker 1:Yeah, would you be willing?
Speaker 2:to try it, yeah, okay, tell you what, undo your shirt here and go ahead and take it off, and I'm going to here put it on, okay, now here's what I want you to do. Let me know. Does it feel comfortable? Does it feel comfortable? Cause I really wanted to feel comfortable for him, cause he's real picky. Like, how's the arms? How do the arms feel? Pretty decent, okay. How does it like? Is it long enough for you? Okay, would you do me a favor? Would you keep it on for a little bit until I can sort of check out, because I want to see how it feels after a little bit, see what you think.
Speaker 2:Okay, Okay Now in fact, not a shirt for my husband, it's a new one that your daughter got for you and she's been trying to get you to wear something other than that ratty old thing. And but did it feel at all like you were unacceptable? And and you it's like?
Speaker 1:Oh, wow. And then I go about my day and I'm just wearing this new shirt, and you're just wearing a shirt, I mean, and that's me understanding how dementia works.
Speaker 2:I mean, when you see me, you go what do you think of my shirt? And it's like, I think it's gorgeous, you look great in it. How's it feel, feels great, you know. And if you say, oh, this is for your husband, right? I go. You know what it looks like. You're really enjoying it. When you get done with it, I'm just going to get him another one. You know what?
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's more at the store, I'll go grab it. There's more to the store.
Speaker 2:There are more in the store, and so the idea of building a relationship of trust, of like, of non-judgment so I don't tell people you're wet, you need to get cleaned up ever I will say Ooh, feel this?
Speaker 2:What do you think? And if the person goes, oh, oh, my heavens, and if I say I must've spilled something, I'll go, sure enough, it looks like, wow, let's go get that. Oh, my heavens, how awful I hate. That happened for you, you know, rather than you didn't spill anything, you peed on yourself. That moment where, without thinking, your brain goes well, that's not true. Me, I didn't spill anything. I want to tell truth. And it's like the truth is something spilled. It spilled out of her. She wasn't aware of it. If she was aware of it, she wouldn't have done that. She'd go in the bathroom, she could have gotten there.
Speaker 1:Do I really need her to feel incompetent for me to do my job?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's exactly true, we had a guy on, had a guy on. He is really he's a really successful um just entrepreneur and and influence in the community here in utah and his mom is struggling with dementia and has been, and he kind of had this realization where he's like I can tell you within 30 minutes of picking my mom up to take her home for sunday dinner, were what the 10 questions are, what I will say in response, and he's like it was hard, really hard in the beginning because like it'd be, like mom, you already asked me that question five minutes ago and he's like but then I had to realize you know she's not being malicious or like and it's like she wants to have a conversation, she wants to connect and he's like I had to realize that everything was her attempt at connecting.
Speaker 1:And we're going to answer those same questions, you know, 15 times over the course of our dinner and and it's going to be a beautiful moment.
Speaker 2:You know like it is, or you have another choice and that's what folks get, it's like OK. So you asked me to say so you know, are we going to go back soon. So go ahead and say and you've probably asked me multiple times- yeah, are we going to go back soon. You're wanting to know if we're going back soon. We are, oh, but before we go, oh, I want you to look at something. Look at this picture. What do you think? You like it.
Speaker 2:I think it's pretty, it's colorful, I think it's pretty, yeah, sort of not the best rainbow you've ever seen, huh.
Speaker 1:It's, it's pretty, it's good, it's pretty. Well, you know what.
Speaker 2:What do you think of this one?
Speaker 1:That one. I like it a lot, you like that one a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, now that's cool. What about this one with the little girl over here? What do you think of that?
Speaker 1:I think that's fun, I don't know. That's fine, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:Cool. So you know what's cool about you. You have all this art background. Huh, you like art. That's cool. I have a book. I want to show you Now what happened.
Speaker 1:To repeat, repeat now we're back into it's a uh kind of like what did I use a lot of a lot of visual. Like I said, it all comes in right here and then back and forth but it feels better and different when I can sort of make it flow better. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But that takes skill and you know otherwise. You know I have to have the same exact conversation over and over again and it is hard to keep that interesting. But that's where my skill set is a little different and I go well, let's expand, because you know what the heck.
Speaker 1:It's cool how you always are able to take some request or like a direct. I need to do this and totally redirect to something that's meaningful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so I believe I mean it's sort of like. I guess people would say it's like improv, it's a yes, and so I answer you yes, and and then we can figure out where can we go next.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then we can figure out where can we go next. Yeah, so with people like him, I mean, you have a substantial social media following and the thing that's cool we've had different dementia care specialists on, but their following is all. It really is mostly like LinkedIn with other senior care professionals. It really is mostly like LinkedIn with other senior care professionals, but you've been able to reach a larger demographic with TikTok and like more commonly used as general social media Instagram, facebook.
Speaker 2:TikTok. We have LinkedIn, but we also I mean we try really hard YouTube. I mean we are available in so many different ways. We work with Rude, which is a new app.
Speaker 2:We have some apps that people are using and I'm active on that because we know that so many people learn in different ways, so many audiences are connected in different things podcasts, because you know, however, you're able in that moment to grab something and take it. We'd like you to have something to take because this is a it's a rough journey, it's a long journey, it's a hard job that people are trying to do, and if you catch something in a moment and it's something you can use, then you tend to come back If you know. If it's not there, you can't find it. So you know.
Speaker 1:So with that, with your social media presence and what you're posting, what I guess what topics have gone I guess you say the most viral or had the biggest large spread impact Cause I think that's something that the management of these communities can use as like a huge value add. People coming in. I don't know what to do with my mom. Like you said, it's been building up for five, seven years. They didn't know and now they're at this point like oh crap, um, being able to say yes, we can help her and you know when, like this, this gentleman, if he, the community that his mom is staying at, was like you know, you should do all these things when you take her out and like what are the things that just the general population of caregivers caring for their family has found valuable?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the most important thing is that we're going to need new skills.
Speaker 2:And we've got to go into this, realizing if their brain is changing and some of their brain is dying and it's going to continue onward is changing and some of their brain is dying and it's going to continue onward. I want to get on board soon rather than late, because I'm going to have to pick up speed really quick. So, whether I'm a professional or family member, wow, it would be a really good idea. If I'm paying attention to the changes and I start to notice, wow, we're having a little friction here where we've never had that, or I'm getting a blank look when I used to get a question. There's a hesitation. So if we could get people to like sort of go huh, how can I, you know? And so what we do is we try to be available and so you can chat a question you can ask.
Speaker 2:We'll try to do something about it. I think the biggest mistake people make is not asking questions and so ways that we can get people to generate a question I don't even know what to ask. Well, let me ask you how are you doing? Are you feeling here, here or here, about what's going on? And so that's a starting place, and so we'll start. And I think we have to be willing to start with where we are, regardless and I think that's what we work hard on is being present, so that in that moment, somebody feels listened to and heard. And once they get that, they get their agenda met. Then we can go to different places, and it can be little baby things or it could be huge things. It's like cause I'll get a lot of questions about how do you know when it's time?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'll say well, by the, the, the fact that you're asking about three months ago by the time you're willing to ask the question. You've been in crisis for a while.
Speaker 2:In general, I mean people hesitate to ask the question because it feels like giving up on somebody and I would say you're just letting go of some of the job you have. You have too many jobs and you're letting go of something, but you're not giving up. I don't want you giving up, but I do want you to think about letting go of some things, because things are so different than they used to be. You need more support to do that.
Speaker 1:I love talking on that vein. When people you know they feel like I'm letting my mom down or I'm letting my wife or husband down, it's not, it's. You're getting back to being a daughter or a husband or a son, like you're just letting go of a lot of these other duties that are beyond. You know, we want it so that way, when you come to visit mom, your daughter, you're not. You know, here's the tricky part.
Speaker 2:That's really scary for folks, cause I don't know how to do that anymore, and so then we want to support them in doing that. So here's what that might look like. Tell me what your mom's favorite music is. What's her favorite artist? The Beatles, beatles.
Speaker 1:Ooh Like early, early or more John and Ringo and that guy after, yeah, a little later on.
Speaker 2:A little later, like yesterday. Does she like yesterday?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Oh, cool, all right. So here's what I want you to do. I want you to preload yesterday and two other Beatles songs on your cell phone and when you come in, I want you to go hey, mom, check this out and start playing one and sing along with her, and you might even see if you can get it on YouTube, where the words come up so that, when you come, in.
Speaker 1:That'd be so fun with my mom when you come in.
Speaker 2:That'd be so fun with my mom. Ah, yeah, because I think sometimes one of the reasons people keep trying to do tasks with people is because they have lost. They've lost the relationship. They don't have to get it back, and that's where we can come in handy. Not not to say out loud you know, you're, you don't know how to be a daughter anymore. I mean that's, that's not fair. It's like you don't know what that level of dementia, how to engage, and it's really hard and it is really hard, um, which is why many people stop visiting, because it gets so scary and hard and I don't know what to do and we just it never works.
Speaker 2:I feel, horrible at the end and she cries and I'm upset and and it's hard, and so I think helping people navigate that is is important, because I they do need help often and sometimes people are spectacular, but I know a lot of people who aren't yeah, um, there was something so switching a little bit.
Speaker 1:Um you mentioned you know you have like, is it physical, emotional, mental, but even spiritual? I am curious, what role does spirituality have in your approach to?
Speaker 2:dementia care whole. They're hidden, and the hard part for us is to accept not my job to dig them out, my job to support them as they appear and know that they're whole. I'm here to hold that space, to offer that opportunity, to create that moment where we can be together or you need to be alone, but I'm not going to force it. And so everything I do must be done with permission, because when I don't seek and receive permission, I've got to learn how to get permission.
Speaker 2:When somebody is like not able to tell me and not able to show me a whole lot, I will know whether I have permission. Whether the person is, that's not permission. And so I've got to pause and realize, wow, I'm pushing the spirit too hard. That person's spirit is there and they're giving me messages of distress and so, okay, that's a spiritual distress, not just a physical distress. That means I'm not listening and I need to pause and get super curious about how to listen. And so I'll often start oh, this is not okay. I'll say out loud what they're showing me to see if I'm on target and they'll go.
Speaker 2:yeah, it's not, and it's like okay, window just opened.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's interesting, just mirroring.
Speaker 2:Window just opened.
Speaker 1:Window into the spiritual. That's cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's really for me, and what we teach is it's always about really staying super curious, having incredible compassion, Also really truly seeking the mutual benefit each of us can have when we are together and do work together, and realizing it is about relationships and you've got to authentically care. I mean, it can't be a surface. Yeah, yeah, yeah, here, let me get your pants off.
Speaker 2:I mean it's like because yeah, you're a really sweet guy here, let me get your pants off. I mean you're going to figure that out real quick. So it really is being committed to the relationship and it means as part of my job, I've got to be able to recognize at the end people got to go home and I'm not talking about to a physical place, I'm talking about leaving this earth, and I've got to be really comfortable with the idea of releasing someone into their next space and not grieving the loss but celebrating the life and celebrating that transition.
Speaker 1:Or it can be really dark sometimes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's hard, especially in the industry where that can happen pretty regularly, yeah, and so, whatever I've done, have I done what I could to make that journey complete? And if I did, then let's celebrate what an amazing human being and what a gift to get to go um, having done what you were needing to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's. I love that. Um, we're getting. Time has flown. I have one more question before I ask the last few. I am curious your opinion on technology for those with dementia. I know that that is something that, again kind of anecdotally, you can protect bank accounts, you can protect all these things. Is there a space for? Specifically on loneliness, that's something that I'm really curious about. Is there a way to incorporate social platforms and things like that for people going through dementia safely?
Speaker 2:I think we are just getting to the front edge of really effective platforms. I think there's been a whole lot of before. I think we were just really starting to appreciate the skills of people living with dementia, the limitations of people living with dementia, the misunderstandings of engineers and creators who thought they had a simple answer to a complex situation, and we're starting to look at how to use technology in more effective ways, because we're getting better at recognizing its boundaries and its need for support. I think technology needs as much support as the person living with dementia I mean. So often we think, oh yeah, the tech will be the answer and it's like no, it's a piece of the puzzle. But we've got to figure out how and when to deploy it and how to monitor it and to modify it as needed.
Speaker 2:I love music, but putting it on 24-7 isn't an answer. It's sort of like noise Figuring out what is up music for somebody and what is relaxing music for somebody, and then employing the technology to monitor heart rate, respiratory rate to see whether what's working. Is it going with that person or are we fighting it? If so, do I need to bump the energy up so we can catch their energy and then help them come on down. There are lots of ways that technology can be a gift, but it can also turn into a weapon.
Speaker 1:If.
Speaker 2:I think it's going to do something it's not doing and I get frustrated with the person or the technology. You know everybody's always looking for that.
Speaker 2:How can we have a control, a TV control that they can use, and it's like you know let's look at how often we should be using the TV and you know how do we use it as a tool, not a babysitter. I mean, if you're looking for a babysitter, tvs may not be the best babysitters in the world, um, you know, but it's. It's a challenge because I have to know the person, I have to know the technology and then I have to know the situation yeah um, and people want it to be simpler.
Speaker 2:But there's great ways to use technology, but there's also messy ways to try and and you buy it and it's not used and it's expensive and it's hard to maintain and whether it's a documentation system or whether it's some, you know, a support to engage, how you use what you got really matters, and if we don't prepare people for how to do it, it can really be a mistake frequently yeah, yeah, and really the that is insightful.
Speaker 1:Like the technology or the tool itself can be amazing, or like the example of music itself is always good, but how you use the technology, you know if you have 100 different people, you might need to use 100 different micro variations of this technology and you can't just like here and otherwise and what I use in the morning may not be what I need in the afternoon.
Speaker 2:And when I bring everybody together, what's the volume? I've got to adapt it for everybody. But do I need a set of headphones on certain folks or modifications, because they have significant hearing problems or they have hypersensitivity? Because people have lived with autism a long time and now they're getting old and so you know we may still have issues.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so really technology can be. I would say it's a potential supplementer and not the answer. Most times.
Speaker 2:I do not believe it will ever be the answer to things. I think it will be part of an answer or part of a solution or part of an experiment and I think if we look at it that way, then we're more respectful of what it could offer but also what it probably is not doing. I mean, I would use the example of chair alarms. I think we've finally gotten to a place where people realize the only people listening to chair alarms are other residents who are tired of hearing them Because the person who's getting up out of the chair is ignoring the chair alarm. The people who are down the hall are too far away from the chair alarm to be there when they need it and they get. They get so over tired of it that they quit actually hearing it. There's evidence they quit yeah, they don't register it as an alarm.
Speaker 2:It's just sort of a noise that's happening and the people nearby are yelling sit down, sit down, alarm's going off. She's getting up again. She's getting up. So that's your chair alarm is the resident sitting next to them.
Speaker 1:What the last two questions? What are some of the most rewarding moments that you've experienced in your career that have fed you to keep going? I think those ones that keep you going are ones that people should strive for.
Speaker 2:They're called aha moments. There are moments when someone, when I've done something and somebody has an aha, you can see it. Their brain goes, oh, and then they try it and they come back my favorite moments. They come back, they go you're not going to believe this, you're not going to believe this. It worked and it's like it did. Tell me about that Because for them, it was such a disbelief to belief when they figured it out. They actually have the power to change things and it's so funny when people do it and they're like you're not going to believe this and it's like probably do, but go ahead, I've got to give you the energy back or that's sort of it's like I'm sure I will.
Speaker 2:You know that's not helpful but it's really great, it gives me great joy and pleasure and satisfaction to find people opening their eyes, opening their hearts, their, their, their spirits to the idea of something different and realizing, oh, I can choose something different. And it's like, yeah, how cool is that.
Speaker 1:I love that. Um last question is what advice would you give to someone just starting their career in dementia care that wants to be in it for the long haul?
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, spend time with people living with dementia from the very not even knowing they have it till the very end of life. Get really super curious about yourself and figure out are you somebody who likes to be flexible or do you like structure and patterns and do you need things to be right? Because if that's who you are, this is probably a very uncomfortable place to get into and I'd recommend thinking of something else. If you love to be creative and have the ingredients and not know for sure what you're going to make for dinner, because you have to sort of see what's in the refrigerator and what else is happening and what's the day been like, then this is the right place for you and what you'll want to do is get some training with somebody who is really excited about you learning and not excited about telling you a bunch of stuff, but really wants to engage with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right. What's next for TIPA Snow? Who should find you? Where do they find you, all those fun questions?
Speaker 2:We're on tipasnowcom, we're on all the social media. I mean, if you could put my name so unusual, if you just put that in, it'll pop up a lot of different stuff.
Speaker 2:Positive approach certainly does, but TIPA Snow tends to be teaching. That approach certainly does, but tip of snow tends to be a teaching that'll pop up. The next thing for us is we're really hoping that over the course of the next five years there is a radical change in acknowledging the need to prepare people for this work and that we don't need to have people in trauma trying to do care because they haven't been prepared ahead of time, and that making sure people have what they need before they walk into situations makes all the difference in the world and the outcome for everybody involved. And it's worth establishing some baseline of ability before we start throwing people to the wolves of care. And that's what we're hoping for the next five years is let's make a difference.
Speaker 1:And you're on track for sure, just helping everybody. So I've loved this today. It's been a pleasure and an honor to spend the last 45, 50 minutes with you, so thank you so much, and I know people are gonna get a lot of value out of it.
Speaker 2:So my pleasure. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Take care.